OCM Trading Ltd
145 – 157 St John Street
London
EC1V 4PY
United Kingdom
Tel: 0845 094 0493
enquiries@ocmcapital.com
recruitment@ocmcapital.com
Website: http://www.ocmcapital.com
OCM Capital is a trading name of OCM Trading Ltd, incorporated on 21st June 2010. They recently hosted a hotcomm webinar promoting a chargeable trader training package. The program discussed was four months in duration, costing $5000. The strategy focus seemed to be centered around a discretionary market profile approach using long timeframe price charts.
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[...] OCM Capital [...]
I have tried to ring the number supplied, but it says it does not exist. What’s the story ?
This is the number on their website. Try emailling them, though the phone number looks like one of these call-centre answering services and the office address is a virtual office mail forwarding centre. Maybe they dont have their own office, and perhaps they didnt quite get off the ground as a new start?
Do not give any money to OCM. Kevin Haygreen is a scammer. He has never shown any of his students real, live trading. He has never provided broker documents of his trading. He has taught everyone of his students a different method ranging from candlesticks to order-flow. Not one of them are profitable to this date. Kevin haygreen makes promises, but never delivers. It is a huge scam.
http://www.traderslaboratory.com/forums/f30/86834-ocm-capital-kevin-haygreen-8788.html#post106135
Okay. Hello, my name is Matty. I have been a student of Kevin’s for about 1 month now. he has been teaching me order-flow with a price action based market structure. the last time i lost money was last Friday, but i think that was mainly due to my psyche at the time. since then, and up to that point, i have been gaining a few ticks to a few points a day, the majority of the time roughly 3 to 4 ticks. i trade the ES. i had my doubts after having heard some things about kevin. it got me thinking that i had never seen any statements before. so i started to doubt him, but then, just a few minutes ago, he showed me real bank statements. obviously he is a successful trader. when i think about it, kevin has taught me a lot. but his participation has not been very active (regarding this, kevin just told me: “if i spoon feed you, you will never be an independant trader that can trust your own instinct”). but why should i make this demand? he gave me a very good, rare opportunity to learn from him. i have only been learning under him for a month and i am sure that within the next couple of months i will be live. i would say the main thing kevin gave me was a point in the right direction and confidence. what was said about kevin was not based on the whole facts. i think it was said out of spite or annoyance because kevin has been out of reach for the past week (due to illness). he has called trades live with me in skype. if i signed up to learn how to trade, he has given me just that. time will tell.
As well as Matty above, I have also been on the mentorship program offered by this firm. As mentioned by Matty, I have also enjoyed success from the program and can recommend the firm. I think the post made by Tracy is unjustifed and sounds more like someone who is unable to take responsibility for themselves. While on the program I was apart of a great group where as well as being mentored by the head trader Kevin, everyone worked together to help each other reach their goals.
At no point were any false promises made to myself or others in the group. Since day one of first contacting them, they have always made it clear that success is not guaranteed, but they would do whatever they can to help me reach my goals.
If someone is looking for a teacher who will baby sit them every minute of the day then this program is not for you. I have always understood that as well as teaching they have their own trading and business to take care of. If you want to be taught by an obviously highly experienced trader then I can recommend them. After these comments were mentioned to me by Kevin, I feel it is my obligation to express my loyalty by setting the record straight about Kevin and his firm, as he and OCM have always done well by me.
David Ashcroft
I David how is the mentoring going had any problems yet?
I am a student of Kevin Haygreen. I started with Kevin in late April 2010.After a short period of time with Kevin and some adjustments to my trading style I started trading live again.
From May 3 2010 to June 8 2010 I did not have a losing day. I went 28 days without a losing day (I did have a loss within the day, however, by day end I was in profit) the net ROI after commissions was approx 42%. I have the statements to prove that.
If Kevin is scamming…. then let the scam continue…..I think what really is going on.. here… is a spitting match between traders/mentors…so let them fight as they will, however, as for mentoring Kevin presented to me the adjustment I needed to become a profitable trader, now it is up to me(Kevin to fine tune) to develop that adjustment and become even more consistent in all market conditions.
I want to take this opportunity to thank all past students and clients who have taken the time to post about their experiences with myself and my firm. The biggest aspect of trading is yourself and taking responsibility for your own actions. As with anything in life, you only get out of our program what you put into it.
Paying a firm or an individual for mentorship does not guarantee success. To use an example, people pay a lot of money to go to university or college, however this doesn’t mean all will graduate with a top class MBA and go onto a highly lucrative career. Some will fail and drop out, some will graduate with average grades, while others will reach high levels of success and go onto bigger things. As a firm, just like a university, we offer you an equal opportunity to learn how to trade properly and to have the best chance of success. We do not offer any opporunities where your self responsibility is removed for a fee.
As for the first comment made about us being a start up. We used to operate under a different name, however this summer we were contacted by a large global software company who stated to us that they owned the rights to the name that we were using. Along with this, the requested that we changed the name of our business which we complied with.
Kevin Haygreen’s students have yet to see Kevin Haygreen trade live. His students receive excuse after excuse when they ask him to see live trading and PNL statements. I am in contact with every single student of Kevin Haygreens. Send me an email at bojanglebojangle@gmail.com for more info.
Kevin Haygreen also uses the name Kevin King. He is a fraud.
Too many contradictions with this guy which don’t add up. There is no prop firm that you can go and visit, it is all online. He used Kevin King in a free trial demo. So you have to be very careful and ensure you see proof of trading statements and some live trading before considering parting with any money.
Wow Kev I cant believe this crap. I have been a student of Kevin’s since July of 2009 And i have seen statements and have seen him trade with a live account with size that every one on here couldn’t even grasp. He is far from a fraud and it sounds like there are a few people that are mad because Kev didn’t want to waste his time with people that are so irresponsible for them self’s. He has never given me any reason to doubt his creditability. He has been going through a tricky time right now personally and could use a little Kev time. And any one that doesn’t understand that is a selfish prick. Every one needs to under stand that not all traders are the same and traders like Kevin and the guys at OCM would prefer to just sit on there hands and wait for the markets to come back to what is considered trad-able to them. Every one needs to keep the markets in context of what has happened. We have come out of the worst financial crisis since the great depression which brought with it massive government intervention. The markets tanked and rallied hard and now just keep floating higher on crap volume. This makes for the trading conditions to not be favorable for big traders and big firms. Heck all last year trading floors were closing down due to low volume. Along with the big houses reporting really bad trading profits Due to lack of volume. Why mess around with a 10 or 20 lot when your used to much larger size? Personally im still on my journey and I don’t blame Kev for me not making a living as a trader yet. Like Kev says you have to be responsible for your own actions. Kev or OCM isn’t there to spoon feed you or hold your hand. If any one tells you they will for a preset sum of money then my advice would be to walk the other way.
OCM website has gone down, not been loading for a week or two now.
I agree with Mike. Kevin has been helpful and I learned a lot. I also did not pay him much. IF he was scamming people, for what he charged, it would not be worth it. Personally, seems like someone was looking for hand holding. If you read about prop trading and the market in general the dynamics are changing. Many firms are closing. It was as tough hear in 2009. Traders don’t always have to trade. Everyone’s style is different.
I also have seen statements and have had a conversation with a broker before that said he does well. These attacks are very vague. I will admit their is a lot of garbage, but a mentor is to just guide you and teach you the tools to get you going in the right direction. The rest is up to you.
Lastly, I probably took his site down because some people were personally attacking him and his company. I would too. Any successful trader will say it was them, not someone else who made them successful.
I know Kevin for over 1 year and I’m one of his students. I learned a lot from him about how to trade properly, many things around the professional trading business and more. He knows what he is doing. Mike and Matt already mentioned a few important facts. I saw his statements and live trades many times and he makes more money in one day than most people will ever do in a year.
Don’t forget a mentor is not your babysitter. A mentor can show you the door but the rest is up to you. YOU have to do the hard work. Their is no shortcut. YOU have to go through all ups and downs and gain experience from your winners, from your losers, your thoughts and so on.
So don’t blame Kevin for anything and don’t try to ruin his name because he is NOT a scammer.
Greetings from Germany.
Fair enough Chris, Matt and Mike.Kevin Haygreen ruined his own name no one else. Everyone who contracted with him did so in good faith. He decided to respond a certain way and it cost him in all area’s of his life. I will not go into detail as at this point it is a complete waste of my time.The solution here is to move on and let a man/boy clean up his own issue’s on his time not others.
the comment:
I saw his statements and live trades many times and he makes more money in one day than most people will ever do in a year.
O.K. so why were the refunds to s few dissatisfied students paid by his Mommy?
Plus their are many other students that are looking for a refund and have not been
paid back.
hey….a few trades in the AM…wired out that day into Kev’s trading account…should clean up any issue’s with a dissatisfied student and then some…
considering the size he says he trades…
Should I continue…..Enough said …..anyone who would like to discuss this mess further can contact me at canon.nancy@gmail.com
Kevin is a very dishonest guy. I’m sorry to have to say this, but the guy has decieved a lot of people. He told me he was mentoring me 1 on 1 turns out he was playing chat with 5 or more people at the same time. He dissapeared never, completed training, had to threaten police & file with paypal to lock his account before he sent refund. Lost $23k while under his negligent pretend mentoring. or whatever you want to call it. He has told me he quite trading altogether, I don’t know what to believe.. just be careful has he has said somthing different to every person he has talked to, The trading floor does not exist & if he send your multi million dollar statements for proof, they are Fraudulent.
Do not risk any $ with this man. I lost half of my savings & barily recovered the fee he charged. Since this was clearly orchestrated in the mannor of a fraud, I am involving the police if he does not make me whole again as far as what I lost during those times he dissappeared when he has contracted was to be with me every trading day for 12 months. its a nightmare…
Steve,
send me a e-mail. The Leed’s police are working on this case right now.
The police officer is looking at criminal charges.
canon.nancy@gmail.com.
Nancy, here is my email if there is anything I an contribute to this investigation, or if it is still going on.. I did not see your reply until just yesterday.. willing to go to UK to testify if necessary,
THankyou
here it is,, ssmccorp@aol.com regards steve
I’ve known Kevin since June 2009. Kevin has always been very straight forward & honest. In my 20 years of trading, he is the most knowledgeable trader that I have found & I’ve learned a lot from him. I also know Dave, Matt, Mike & Chris & have chatted with them in Kevin’s chat room for months & totally agree with all their positive comments regarding Kevin.
Perhaps Steve could tell us how many months he studied price movement & sim traded before he started trading live & lost $23K. Did someone twist your arm to make those trades?
Also, I’m confused with Ride The Wind 2 months ago giving Kevin a very positive endorement & saying that after a short time with Kevin they had 28 days without a losing day and were up approx. 42% and then 21 hrs ago doing a complete turn around & trashing him.
And bojangle saying “I am in contact with every single student of Kevin’s” is just a plain lie.
You’re not in contact with me & it doesn’t sound like you are in contact with Dave, Matt, Mike or Chris either.
Dale, you have 20 years experience and for you boy that started 4 years ago is most knowledgeable trader? Sorry this is bad joke!
Hello,
Is anyone currently in direct contact with Kevin within a recent time period? I haven’t been able to get in touch with him… does anyone know whats going on?
First of all, I was in the same “mentoring class” with Mike, Matt, Chris, Dale and a few others. I’ll be objective and blunt about all this, for the selfish reason that I want to close this bad tasting chapter in my trading career, put it behind me and moving forward.
Kevin, to start with the same analogy between your “educational program” and university or college, you are right in what you said; BUT you’re missing a huge point in that. Going to a college, or any real educational program you have an equal opportunity to learn and to have the best chance of success, by being thought a complete methodology, not just bits of that and bits of the other one. If you’re going to an accounting college,you will learn the accounting “art”, from A to Z, with all its details, all its applications; you will get a full knowledge package and you will get the users manual as well and yes than its up to the student if he remains a bookkeeper or becomes a chartered accountant.
Or, in your “educational program” the knowledge package is incomplete, in every crippled trading methodology that you mentioned to us; and the users manual is missing totally.
Before joining you, I asked you about a specific trading methodology that I wanted to learn. You promised me that you will teach me, but that didn’t happen; instead of being honest and tell me that you don’t know about it, you were more than happy to take my money and throw me a basic and incomplete technical analysis “education”. Thats not the chance and the way to success in this business!!!
With mentoring comes responsibility, Kevin. Responsibility to teach your students a trading methodology, to teach them how to learn that, to structure their learning, to structure their progress, to teach them how to execute that, to work with them towards achieving their goals in mastering that method, to supervise and work on improving their results, etc. YOU FAILED TO ASSUME RESPONSIBILITY FOR YOUR ACTIONS!!! That says a lot about you as a trader, in the first place, not to say as a human being.
Dale, a knowledgeable trader its not the same as an expert one. (everyone who reads some books, watch some videos its a knowledgeable trader, but there is a gap between knowledgeable and expert; you have to be aware of that gap).
Now to all the guys in the room that got so mad on me during the last week.
You said that I think that you don’t know what you are doing in your trading. I don’t think that BUT I know that you think you know what you are doing! I know that you are under the illusion of understanding, or everyone of you thinks he knows what is going on in a world that is more complex (or random) than you realize.
You may all think that you got something valuable for what you paid for, but I don’t think I got value for what I paid for.
How to structure the learning process, however, will determine whether trading becomes the worthy challenge or a frustrating obstacle. Quite simply, the learning experience was not structured for success, in an important sense, the learning was not structured at all. Trading is not simply an activity, it is a program that requires a curriculum – no less than the education of physicians or the training of athletes, requires a systematic approach to learning. There is so much more to the development of competence than simply sitting behind a screen, turning on your platform and putting on trades when a trend line is violated, or a breakout from a wedge occurs, etc. Mentors should impart very specific knowledge and skill development strategies not just generic advice. Mentors should work with you in creating a trading plan according to everyones specifics (account size, personal trading style and trading method, etc.).
Without all of the above and more you’ll be forever caught up, hopelessly overwhelmed with the task of learning a complex market dominated by professionals.
You were talking about the importance of psychology in trading, yes it is HUGE, but, then again, its not about the emotions that you go through when you are in a trade. The followings are parts of the trading psychology that you should focus on (if you don’t see a direct connection between what follows and psychology, think deeply):
You have an answer for where Kevin was when he was telling us that he is in Rome getting married, that he was in hospital almost dying, that he was divorcing, that his club in Thailand got devastated; he was on trading forums, recruiting others and “mentoring”.
You have an answer for why he got so many email addresses, and why he changed them so often. You have an answer why his “lessons” were only on Webex free trials.
You all say you saw his statements (a few hours in Adobe and the problem is solved); but any of you saw his WRITTEN TRADING PLAN? HIS WRITTEN TRADING METHODOLOGY detailed?
You all say you learned a lot from him. Think about this: if deep down inside you, you really feel that what Kevin has thought you has any real value, if you really believe that what he thought you is applicable to trading with confidence, than you wouldn’t look somewhere else for answers. In fact, you wouldn’t have any question marks. YOU WOULD BE TRADING HIS METHOD CONSISTENTLY, SUCCESSFULLY AND CONFIDENTLY!!!
But what he thought you leaves a lot of answered questions, a lot of confusion, a lot of lack of confidence, and thats why you look for answers to others (Eminiplayer, FT71, Vader, TSTrades, Pivot Farm, etc.).
You just fool yourself into wishful thinking and the blindness of hope, if you think that the fact he mentioned concepts like value breaking, value shifting, P & b formation is effective trading education. He didn’t thought me/you how to trade those concepts, and I bet none of you knows how to trade them, and I bet he doesn’t know how to trade them (while he might know how to scalp them, thats something totally different than trading them).
You say you saw him trading live (arguable), anyway you have to remember the conditions that were back than (there were articles about housewives in Asia making tones of money trading), you don’t need too much of a skill to take 10 points out of a 30-40 points range. But you need a lot of trading skill to take 4 points out of a 10 points range consistently.
So now, when the conditions are totally different, you realize that you don’t have knowledge about a solid trading methodology that adapts upon market conditions. You find yourself incapable of executing trades because you lack A SOLID, COMPLETE, DETAILED TRADING METHODOLOGY THAT ADAPTS TO ANY MARKET CONDITIONS!!! Instead you blame the markets that aren’t tradable, because you are a blind believer in your mentor, who told you that you will survive and succeed at trading if you just sit on your hands and wait for the market to come back to what is considered tradable.
Trading is about evolution, and evolution is about adaptation to forever changing conditions. Evolution is about survival of the most adaptable not the survival of the fittest!!!
Well, take a look at FT71, did you ever hear him complaining about the markets that are trading into a 4 points range or 10 points, or whatever? Did you hear him complaining about markets that are lacking opportunities? Did you see him flying from one trading methodology to another? I don’t. What I see is a confident trader, an honest man who is trading the same method over different market conditions. I see a trader who knows his method in detail (he has deeply internalized all the elements of his method, all the connections between them), I see a trader who is mastering and adapting his method, I see an EXPERT TRADER in its truest sense(not just a knowledgeable one).
Do you think his method is simple? The simplicity of trading doesn’t stand in not having detailed your methodology in smallest details meaningful to you, because of the fear of not over-complicating things. The simplicity of trading stands in exactly that (detailing everything in your method, learning and internalizing your method, and than everything is simple because you own it, you know it and can apply it with confidence). His method its not simple,its not complicated either, it is COMPLEX (complex and complicated are 2 very different concepts); but ITS EXECUTION IS SIMPLE.
Therefore in its complexity (of trading method, markets are complex) stands its simplicity (of trading, execution is simplified)!!!
More often than not you miss the trades, more often than not you enter trades at good location but in the wrong direction (like the one on January 20th).
The psychology that stands behind all of the above, decision making, thought processes and beliefs that you have in spite of all the evidences against, is what you have to study and focus on, not controlling your emotions when you make the transfer from sim-trading to live trading.
Such a shame and wasted time Kevin, if you only put the same energy in building a trading methodology, in structuring our learning, in conveying the knowledge transfer to us (peoples who put their trust in you in good faith), probably you would have had much more to gain over the long run.
I am disappointed and disgusted about this episode, accusing me for blackmailing you when I only asked for the refund you promised me before joining your so called “educational program”, it is just another thing (in the big pile) that tells a lot about who you truly are as a person, as a trader, about your honesty.
Don’t forget about KARMA, thanks God you are young enough and have a long way to go!!!
I know you believe you understand what you think I said, but I am not sure you realize that what you read is not what I meant.
I hope you’ll get my point that you weren’t open enough to get it in the room.
I wish you all, the best of luck in your lives and trading careers.
… by the way, if any of you is proceeding with criminal charges against Kevin Haygreen, please contact me at zalain@gmail.com; I can contribute with my statement as well as all the evidence I have
Well, I see Kevin Haygreen has a twitter account. So does the Southhampton Police…and they are following every move Mr. Kevin King and Kevin Haygreen is doing. The Leeds police are aware of the this and are following up on everything…send an invite to Leeds police Mr. King – Haygreen.They would love to here from you….
This guy Kevin Haygreen is a complete loser. He pretended to be a pro trader when the truth is he a 25 year old kid that says he spent 10 years as a professional trader….O.K. so 15 years old he started in the industry, he makes millions, worked in London,….etc….etc….. If anyone has had any dealings with this clown please e-mail canon.nancy@gmail.com and I will fill you in on how he cons people out $$$$
He is from Leeds, English accent, talks a good game,however, every word is a complete lie. Document everything with him and ask him to verify all statements, as he will post some stuff…which is great…more evidence for the Leeds police.
the lies are coming back Mr. Haygreen…….the best place is a cell, which will be your new address…for quite sometime.
Say Hi to Pimm and Keith….
“He is from Leeds, English accent…”
Leeds… accent… definitely AN accent, not sure I’d call it an English accent, personally!
mocking people with a northern accent? u mast be a propa fackin geeza!
Hey I am a real trader and I post all my trading results on face book.